Renegade Capital

Investing in Women’s Economic Power, feat. Calvert Impact

October 17, 2023 Season 3 Episode 2
Renegade Capital
Investing in Women’s Economic Power, feat. Calvert Impact
Show Notes Transcript

S3 Ep1| After a year where The Barbie Movie, Taylor Swift, and Beyonce have all broken records in the entertainment industry, the world has gotten a glimpse of the economic power of women. According to the US Department of State, the financial contributions of women are vital for achieving a more stable and secure financial system. In this episode guests Beth Bafford and Anna Mabrey from Calvert Impact share why investing in gender equity is not just good for women – it's good for business and good for society.


About Calvert Impact.
Calvert Impact is a nonprofit investment firm that has helped thousands of people and institutions channel over $2 billion in impact investments to social enterprises throughout the US and around the world.

About Anna.
As Director on the Investor Relations team at Calvert Impact, Anna’s goal is to collaborate with institutional investors and Financial Advisors, using the Community Investment Note and across asset classes, to build the impact investing space and make a more sustainable and equitable world.

About Beth.

Beth leads Calvert Impact Capital's strategy and new business development efforts to build financial products and services that accelerate private capital for the benefit of communities in the US and around the world. She leads the organization’s syndications and structuring practice and oversees corporate strategy, communications and impact management and measurement. Beth serves on the Advisory Board for the CASE Initiative on Impact Investing (CASEi3) at Duke’s Fuqua School of Business, the Investment Committee for the Aaron and Lillie Straus Foundation, the Impact Investment Committee for the Baltimore Community Foundation, the Advisory Board of Higher Ground Labs, and the Board of Founders First Capital Partners. She lives in Washington, DC with her husband and four young children.

Renegade Capital Tools & Tips.
A renegade not only listens but acts. We've consolidated a few tips from this episode to invest in women's economic power.

  • Build confidence through resources: There are many resources and communities available that can help you become more confident in your financial skills. 
  • Review your current portfolio and consider investing in products that support women. 
  • Support the Fearless Fund and donate to The Fearless Foundation
  • Openly discuss money with the women and girls in your life.

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Please note these transcripts are automatically generated and have not been edited. 

This is Andrea Longton. This is Leah Fremouw. and This is Ebony Perkins and we are Renegade Capital. All views expressed in this podcast are our own we are not financial planners investment advisers or tax advisers the views that we have on this show do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of the people who sign our paychecks. So please keep that in mind and always, always consult a trained Financial professional before you start moving your hard-earned money. Let's dive in. As a girl growing up what were you taught about money had nothing about money you warned me beforehand that we were going to get this conversation I've been racking my mind trying to think about any type of financial conversation that I ever had growing up and they were all just don't talk about money we don't talk about money um I remember my dad sitting down with his little like Bill basket where he'd put in it was this like little longa Burger wood basket and it would sit on our kitchen table and he put the bills in it and the checkbook was in it and like on Saturday mornings he would go and write checks to pay the bills oh and finance is the money is the devil I do remember that one that one came through loud and clear for me and this is the person who became a TR harded financial analyst like the the legit at CFA were the boys in your family or boys around you growing up were they taught the same thing do you know I don't think so I mean I don't I don't have any memories of it at all I remember like taking econ classes in college and being like Oh my gosh like money is really important and how we use money is really important and I want to keep doing this and that was my first realization of like this is important um and this is something that we can't just ignore or treat as taboo because I'm just going to keep going anyway I even remember like going and getting a promisory note for tuition and getting like a fafs alone the person at my college saying this is important this is what this means me be like yeah so my name that's real that's that's cman I'm sure Leia what about you we liked money and our family so my mom emphasized with me and my sister you know to to go to college so we could have a career and be kind of financially independent I wasn't necessarily sat down and like showed how to budget but we definitely had savings accounts when we were kids my dad came from a single a family with just his his mom and his sister and so he got through school and got through his PhD from um academic scholarships and at the same time Bill was was very frugal and you know and so there was the the value of saving and spending wise ly and not just kind of like buying the boat on the week I mean we didn't have a boat or anything like that but just saying it was um kind of I think balanced with not having things from when he grew up and then my my mother was one of five kids um military family so again being very costeffective with canned peas and and feeding us a family that size and kind of having to move around the country and um so I think more middle class and maybe my dad grew up as but um again the you know the savings and and using money wisely was ingrained um in my mom as well but I hadn't thought about it but my dad bought stocks and my sister and I's name like Disney stocks when we were kids and we thought that was really cool so again not like the book lessons but just the value of of using money to do things like that was guess instilled early on I haven't really reflected on that until now huh thanks for the question I think we I not even think I I was taught about money more so from a space of girl you need to make sure you can hold it down um and I mean I'm thinking about the women in my life in particular both my mother and both of my grandmothers uh my grandmother when she passed she and her husband my grandfather were married 53 years the other pair they're married 60 years and they both were very serious they said come here girl we going to pull you aside from all the other boys and they were like you need to have your own bank account you need to be able to have your own money and and and this is why and I even remember my grandmother who passed she said Ebony don't rely on a man and not from a space of like you should never get married or anything like that but she was very clear she said in case something happens to your husband not like if he dies but if something happens to him and he's sick for a little while you need to be able to hold down the fort you need to be able to take care of your family and I've always like held on to that like because I knew when she when she said it she was serious she looked me dead in the eye and and said you need to be able to take care of your own and so I've always thought about that I made you know when it was time to go to college yeah my parents were like yeah we want you to get a great college education but there was always a question of okay who's paying for this okay how much scholarship money are they doing and so I was always conditioned to think about money and I think that's why I'm such a aggressive saver now just because it comes from if I'm being honest it comes from a place of fear um but also security and stability when you said they pulled you aside from the other boys did you see other girls your age getting same conversations it depends on what girls we're talking about yeah so I grew up in uh South Carolina right Columbia South Carolina if you have girls who who who look like me um and rais you know I guess relatively middle class A lot of them their grandparents and grandmothers are telling them the exact same thing I just had that conversation with a friend of mine she was like my grandmother was telling me the same thing I know a lot of girls whose mothers are saying you need to have your own bank account but then there are some others who U may not have been as fortunate and they're like hey your way out and your your opportunity to come up is it's going to be you know through through marriage um which I I understand as well is it's just you you pick it it's your choice it depends everybody's financial situation is different right right that's wild to me that you all had like very direct Financial conversations because that was just a non that was a non-starter for my community um and I am annoying with my kids about it like we go to the ATM and we're talking about all kinds of different things and get into exchange rate um issues and and um service fees and so I have two girls and a boy um and it's the same conversation for all three of them but just to have that strength and knowledge as a person to be able to go about your own way in life and to feel secure in your knowledge and your ability to to use finances the tool that it is to create the situation in reality that you want to see as best you can you know one thing I I just thought of pulling back off of what Leah said and her how her dad bought her some stock in Disney and I had the opportunity I was so psyched um to go to a Disney annual shareholders meeting like right before Co started in 2019 and so like that's that's an opportunity for them to um connect with their stockholders um share you know upcoming things that they have going on at the company you can vote on um on various things but they also like share a lot of their upcoming movies but I was so surprised when I went to this meeting there were families like there were literal like shareholders and they brought their kids with them to the the annual meeting and I mean like kids I'm I'm saying like maybe eight seven years old and I was like this is awesome and even to the point now my brother and I we've invest in in birkshire halfway and we kind of want that to be like a sibling trip where we get to go to their annual meeting but I think there are a lot of a lot of things that people are learning at much younger ages and it affects you know the the life you live although Andre you made you told made up for it with your CFA and everything else it's important my family thinks I've lost my damn mind but it's totally cool it's fine this is Leah freal this is eony Perkins and we are Renegade Capital today we are talking about the power women have as both investors and economic[Music] engines Renegade Capital podcast is proud to be sponsored by US Bank Corp impact finance a subsidiary of US Bank which is an industry leader in providing Financial Solutions that help create positive impact for communities and the environment for 35 years its tax credit investments in syndications lending and other Financial Solutions have helped create affordable housing spur economic activity and underserved communities restore historic buildings develop renewable sources of energy and strengthen community development financial institutions or cdfis Nationwide learn more at usbank.com impact Finance today we're joined by our friends at calv impact a global nonprofit investment firm that helps all types of investors invest in solutions that people and our planet need they have a 25 plus year track record of providing positive social and environmental impact and financial returns without compromising either really and one thing that I'm super psyched about and impressed of is that they've channeled over $2 billion in Impact Investments all throughout the world Beth bafford is Vice President of syndications and strategy and she leads Calvary impact Capital strategy and new business development efforts to build Financial products and services for the benefits of communities both in the US and around the world Anna ma is director on the investor relations team at Calvin impact 's goal is to collaborate with institutional investors and financial advisers using their Infamous Community investment note across all asset classes with a strict goal of building their impact investing space and making a more sustainable and Equitable World thanks for joining us today by way of introduction tell us a bit about yourself your work at calber and particularly how did you become a woman that invests in other women um thank you guys so much it's so much fun to be with you we're were're huge fans of of the podcast so um this is Beth uh I'll identify myself first uh my story is is kind of a funny one so my mom um was a stock broker in the 80s um one of the kind of uh rare female stock Brokers after my parents were divorced and Sheed a new career and so growing up um instead of playing with dolls um we played stocks and we had my sister and and our kind of best uh best friend would get together almost every week um and we would sit down and we would write out uh our clients names and their families we would write out the the the kind of hot stocks that week and we would pretend call clients um and sell them various stocks our favorite was Qualcomm in the 80s and we would of sell stocks and we would track and we would take my mom's little pink flips and all the things from her office and we would play stocks and so that was kind of how we grew up was was buying and selling sh stocks for for fake clients um and what my mom says I don't remember what my mom says when I was little is that I used to say that I wanted to be a stock broker for the homeless and she was at the time she would laugh and say you know that's funny they don't have much in the way of investable assets but you know it's a really good ambition um and it's funny that after a kind of winding career out of college um I ended up in in this space um and ended up at Calbert working on the intersection of financial services and access and um support for underinvested uh communities in the US and around the world I have a new game for our family now so I don't know how that's funny I did not know that story um so this is Anna Ma I always wanted to be an archaeologist and did that went to school for that and did that for 10 years and then became a stock broker I started that in my 30s and I came to financial literacy and sort of the time value of money um and all the lessons that I didn't really know until I was 30s and learned like kind of how I was behind and um after being a stock broker with institutional clients I was a financial adviser for a few years and I liked a lot of the aspects of both of those like the financial side of those two jobs but I really done volunteer work my whole life and I just wanted to figure out how to like fit that in with like a humanitarian career and having spent a lot of time in Africa and around the world um I wanted to somehow tie that to like communitarian work abroad so anyway I ultimately found impact investing and Calbert at the same time in in DC so the streams intersected and here I am I love it I've been at Cal almost five years despite um you know your interest from a young age of of of playing pretend stocks and just a natural transition from archae ology to to financial advising you know many women are really afraid to jump into investing or starting their own businesses You know despite the fact that a lot of research shows that women can be stronger investors and business owners than men why do you think women fear this space so much well opposite from Beth's experience I think most women hear really negative messages that we're not good with money or that we're too emotional or we don't make good decisions because we spend too much or you know whatever the different narratives are um I think also a lot of like financial literacy knowledge is passed down like from manto man whether that they're peers or like in families things like that so I don't know I feel like and maybe this is also like the part of the country you're in I grew up in the South I feel like that was also a little bit of a gendered thing I think maybe women feel intimidated or they're not good enough or you know hesitant to make decisions and I actually was talking to entrepreneur last week who said that a woman will not hesitate to write a $1,000 check um for donation but ask her to put that same thousand as an investment and she's like oh no no I don't know how to do that I keep you hearing it even in 2023 so yeah and I think I just remember this from one of either Cheryl samberg's either talks or books about just the the data and research around fear of risk um and that that women tend to be more risk averse um in in kind of all aspects of their life and I think things like investing things like stting a business um are inherently risky um and I think you know part of that is likely because of just the the the enormity of the of the impact when we make a wrong decision because of you know our who who depends on us right we it's not just decisions about us it's about our families it's about our communities and so you know when when you are wanting to even if you're wanting to take a leap I think the fear of taking that leap is is tough if you know that there's a chance that you might not succeed and in in doing so not just impacting yourselves but impacting others around you and I think um and I think that's that's tough it's a tough decision for people to make and I think it's especially tough for for women who don't have kind of a safety net um behind them right I think that's one of the incredible privileges I had growing up um that that many don't is that when I wanted to take a risk you know I knew my mom and my my dad and my family were behind me and I knew that if I failed they would help pick me up and when people don't have that safety net um it makes those risks even harder to take and I think that's where um you know a lot of the efforts around trying to provide friends and family type Capital really flexible Angel Investments right all the the some of the communities that are popping up around that enable people to take those risks uh more fully than than they could otherwise um but they're certainly not enough of it I not heard the donation versus investment that doesn't surprise me but it it kind of had me thinking about just the I guess the stigma of a woman wanting like it's okay for us to give money away but for to us to use money to make money to kind of like that I think has a negative connotation to it when you apply it to women different than men are supposed to take risk and want to make money um that's kind of where my head went hearing that and I was like okay the risk part I can understand but then I also think we're not supposed to want to make money we're supposed to want to you know do certain more of the nurturing and social things um and just I hadn't thought about it like that before it's just interesting to kind of yep that's a layer too of my personality it's been ingrained in some form or fashion I think you hit the the nail on the head or it it made me think about something so like with us wanting to be or being taught as women to be more nurturing should we even focus on and this is a question for Beth and Anna should we even focus on on investing and and building business should that be a priority or should we stay in that lane of of what some may say comes naturally to us I mean I would say absolutely I mean I I think the part of the reason there is such a large um gender wealth Gap in this country and certainly around the world is because of things like lack of access to financial services lack of access to credit um lack of ability to start businesses or lack of um you know kind of support system to start businesses um and we don't you know Empire build right like uh like a lot of of men do that has caused that uh snowballed over Generations has has been a driver of of the wealth Gap and um and has implications across our entire Society in terms of who holds money who holds power um and who makes decisions and you know at the last couple years have taught us anything it's that who makes decisions and who hold power extremely important um for things all the way as personal as like our our bodily autonomy and so I think I think it's extremely important to create the an ecosystem in which women do feel comfortable um and confident enough to go out make money create businesses earn earn earn their keep um to to try to fight those imbalances where do we go from here how do we build um you know that level of comfort and that level of confidence and in women um in order to to become investors or to start their own businesses well I don't come from an entrepreneurial background um so I can't say every woman should start a business um but I do believe in financial literacy and having been a financial adviser I was actually working with a lot of military clients and couples which is sort of the opposite Dynamic um because a lot of men are are the military member and women are the spouses and so because the men have to plug and play as soon as they get to a new assignment the women often like run the household whether that's children finances whatever regardless of the gender Dynamics and regardless of like a hetero couple or whatever both people in a in a partnership of any sort should really kind of understand the moving parts of their situation and one person might be really into it and into the spreadsheets and learning how to invest and you know getting increasingly more sophisticated and asset classes and it doesn't mean the other person has to do that sometimes people you know one is a spender and one is a saver like you can be complimentary just having two eyes on the situation and it doesn't even have to be like you know ire building and wealth building although that's really great but um just having like two different opinions and also if something happens to somebody you don't want to have to make serious financial decisions during an emotional time so it's really helpful if someone else knows where these things are or knows how this works or who to contact that kind of thing so I'm really passionate about this and there's a ton of resources but maybe we're going to get to that later but there's lots of ways for women to build confidence whether it's a membership group a platform books podcasts there's lots of ways well now I was GNA say maybe Mis list some of the resources that you're thinking of because what we can do in the show notes is also linked to them so go ahead and throw them out there by name and then we can make sure they're easy to find for the audience members or what we put out on social media yeah so I recently participated in invest for better which is a small um um You probably interviewed Janine furo before but it's a um it's on the giving Circle model but it's it's financial literacy it's a small group of women like usually 10 to 20 and you're learning the basics from like cash to you know different asset classes and you get increasingly more sophisticated if you're into that you know I mean Angel Investing or what have you so invest for better and the book that goes with it activate your money is awesome um elvest is a really great platform and that's everything from newsletters and website to Asset Management Alexa Von too has a cool book called financially forward and like using modern digital tools to do these different as you know everything from budgeting to investing um those are some that I like is there anything um that we can do for like younger women let's say you know we we don't have Beth's mom who who plays the game with us right I'm just thinking of like preventing the fear from even evolving or are being created yeah I mean I think I mean it's a it's a systemwide problem that we don't have Financial education and financial literacy baked into every High School curriculum right I mean that that is where it should start um uh and so absent that I think it is you know incumbent on all of us to ensure that that's a part of our kids education whether they're boys or girls our you know our nieces our nephews or friends um uh talking to schools about it um having you know guest lectures um and really looking for opportunities to expose uh kids to you know understand money I mean we we started our uh oldest on lemonade stands um to start to understand the basics of Revenue and expenses and profit and just introducing it really young um and and understanding that this is something that's you know a part of life it's not scary um and that it's empowering um like Anna said when when you know how to manage your budget when you know um and understand how to manage your personal finances your Investments um it's it's empowering and uh you know everybody should have those tools in their toolkit let's take deeper about Calbert um and one thing that I'm really impressed by um with Calbert impact is that you pretty much bet on women and you have been extremely successful um embedding on women and their power as you describe it as investors and as economic engines um whether that's as business owners as innovators fund managers whatever it may be why did you choose to to place this bed and why has it been so successful we did it initially um in early 2012 really because we all um thought it was the right thing to do so um we had been been investing in in kind of under represented under resources resource communities since our founding um but really saw an opportunity to take a more intentional with that now called gender lens on our Investment Portfolio and so we created a subset of our portfolio we created a campaign called women investing and women and we kind of set out with this thesis of um women are are good bets right they're they're good Investments um women in leadership women on boards women um really understanding the full value that women bring to a business business and a supply chain and to a value chain overall and so we started testing the thesis and Investments and then in 2018 we actually we said okay well there's a lot of public markets research around the benefits the economic benefits of investing in women but there's not a lot in the private markets so like let's study our own work and let's see what we find right let's look at the Investments that we've made explicitly with ag gender lens and Investments that we haven't um look across our whole Global portfolio and look at percentage of women in leadership positions and investments in uh organizations that had women uh on boards and see if we can do a statistical analysis and understand whether there's whether women in leadership or women on boards is a driver of financial performance no surprise to anybody on on this podcast but um the results were were very clear there is a significantly higher return on sales significantly higher return on assets and significantly higher return on Equity um across our portfolio analysis and so um you know it was clear in the data it's it was kind of a gut from the beginning and then and then we have now evidence to back it up and so after that um effort we then started looking and and Gathering gender disaggregated data across our whole Global portfolio and we look and measure impact um on on women for every investment we make do you have a story that comes to the top of your mind of benefits of investing in women and just how powerful it can be one of the sectors we really du um dug in deeply when we first started this was um access to energy access to clean energy in subsaharan Africa and Latin America and the thesis was that um was that we so we we typically invest in a fund manager that manager is making loans or investments into companies that are providing um off-grid solar for people's homes and the thesis was that that whole chain everything from the salese providing um you know selling solar home systems to the businesses they're running it to the fund manager that that whole chain would be stronger if they understood and measured their the gender impact of their work um and it it was I mean you can think about going door Todo to people's homes and selling solar home systems in subsaharan Africa people were more willing to buy buy a system from a woman because the person that was typically home during the day to receive the sales call was a woman and so they had greater trust in the salese once that really clicked right you could see that people started to understand the benefit of of having women throughout the entire value chain um and we over time you know were able to talk to our our borrowers our partners um and really see and start to measure that impact and and that's created kind of Ripple effects across the industry so I did African archaeology for years and so lived off the grid doing that kind of work and saw sort of the gender NAA mix sunf funder is one of our borrowers and they're now marova sunf funder they are an international impact partner that we first invested in in 2019 um it's part of our GLI um practice as Beth said we helped them scale from a crowdfunding platform to an Institutional impact investor so sunf funder was really a Pioneer in offering debt financing for companies serving household consumers that were off the grid so sometimes that was um access to the hardware sometimes that was pay as you go usage um I saw that a lot in Africa with like cell phones and and that's just that was really cutting edge though like 15 years ago so when we invest invest in clean renewable energy in Emerging Markets we see the outside impact on women and girls as Beth was saying um about like women or girls doing homework women can pursue other employment activities the girls is the huge one because not only are they um getting water and wood which is a full-time job as I saw living in Sudan but um they get married younger if there's no other Revenue Source sometimes the girls are currency you know um so they stay in school longer if they have light you know it's there's lots and lots of studies about how this has an outsa impact so it's really cool to be talking about kind of the value chain too though that the women are buying from women and it's also interesting another layer in that we capture you know a lot of times the men maybe have the bank accounts or they're the head of the household or for whatever reason their names are on the purchase orders or whatever um there's different ways that it may look like skewed mail but like digging at into the deeper layer of how the women are involved and make the decisions and get and and benefit from this is a super interesting aspect of our gingerland strategy so I I love that example just just Queen energy and and reliable energy and the other example I don't know if we have time but I was going to mention just a local um a us so gine America is pretty awesome um they are an example of our us-based impact partner focused on female LED small businesses and they I think we made our first loan to them in 2012 they support female entrepreneurs on lowincome areas they're really focused in the Northeast and Midwest but also North Carolina and Texas and $5,000 is the average uh loan that they make but they don't just offer Capital streams they um offer financial literacy education peer mentoring and networks just lots of cont technical assistance above and beyond the money and actually I just learned recently that Jennifer Lopez joined them as an ambassador last year um and an initiative to reach 600,000 more Latina entrepreneurs they have a really accessible website people can learn more by looking up gine America but they're a good example of our domestic gender loans investing so I I'm part of a Loan Fund now that focuses on black brown and women-owned businesses and um came from a larger cdfi that I would say had more of a traditional risk um appetite for the The Lending real estate and small business and so bridging Virginia is um character-based you know we we pull credit but it's more of information and we pull it later probably when we're going to approve it you know it's kind of that we're not leaning into traditional risk criteria we're trying to actually move away from that and you all being Pioneers back in like 2012 so how did you underwrite these Investments early on um from a maybe a less traditional standpoint and that wasn't an overnight kind of switch um where there are small like incremental steps you had to take to get your board and investors and even underwriting these fund managers on the outside of the US like there's some comfort level that had to be built up towards I'm I'm guessing could you talk a little bit about that because some of the things you're describing now and what you do now is so Innovative and on the the front edge of where we need to go with access to Capital and and all the things that we're trying to work toward so walk us through that path a little bit if you don't mind we have a a portfolio strategy that we we call um build grow and scale and um and really it it allows us to understand that our role in the market is to work with a financial intermediary a fund a manager sometimes we meet them when there what we call the build stage right where they are testing a new testing a new product testing new markets a new structure when we kind of first start to work with folks in the build stage we underwrite with the hope and and expectation that they're going to move to the grow stage and then eventually move to the to the scale stage but our approach and our underwriting and our um and our our investment sizes right are different based on those different stages um but that strategy allowed us to say you know we're going to make room to make sure that we are doing some of these smaller transactions we're all doing more this kind of hight touch um support really digging in understanding the market the potential the managers the people um so that we are prioritizing that as a part of our portfolio and we use that as a lens through which we look at our portfolio like we have we have sectors we have geographies and then we have kind what are they build grow or or scale and um and so that really gave us the kind of space to make sure we were prioritizing that um and allowed us to ensure that we were staying on the kind of Leading Edge of the industry um and not just doing the you know the the the relatively easier more straightforward um transactions that you know meet meet a typical credit box are you able to push back on the institutional investors too and is their willingness to learn from from their sto on you know the way that you are being Innovative and kind of working with and not you know to like can actually those portfolios perform and do pretty well you know with the TA and the other things so is there a a channel back to the other funders that they're learning and growing in their approaches absolutely I mean I think that's that's where we that that is essentially where how we see our role in the market we are the translators okay that's awesome we are transl ERS between the work that's happening on the ground that we all love um and the institutional Capital markets and it's our goal to um to try to and and you know Anna does this on the investor side um I've done it more on the the borrower side but really try to um to put things in their boxes to communicate in a way that they understand um because as as one of our board members always says the capital markets are where Innovation goes to die um which is very very true right they hate new things um and so you know our job is to really say you know yeah here this is what we're doing in the small business space here are small business loans originated by cdfis um but look they perform better or kind of at or better the small business loans that originated by funding Circle or by Lending Club or the you know the multiple commercial loan syndication or securitizations that are in the market today and here's the data to show you that that's true right and we know that you need to see the data in this form we know you need to see it in certain Cuts we know you need to see it over time um and so that you can you know you institutional can do the side by side and say Here's what we're used to here's what these loans look like and like oh wait they happen to be you know they happen to be originated by nonprofit lenders yeah um but but but this is you know here's how here's how how you need to see the information um and that's really kind of the when we talk about we talk a lot about kind of building the plumbing of the financial system to reach these markets right that's that's part of the plumbing those are the pipes that are disconnected today that that need to be connected for Capital to flow Renegade capital podcast is proud to be sponsored by Self-Help Credit Union and self-help Federal Credit Union which believe in the power of Finance to transform lives and communities are you an impact investor looking to make a difference look no further than self-help where your deposits can create positive change don't just invest for profit invest for impact visit self-help.org invest for impact today and start depositing into a money market or term certificate with Self-Help Credit Union where your money can change lives Self-Help Credit Union ownership and Economic Opportunity for[Music] all so I I'm picky backing off of that whole statement of you know Capital markets is where Innovation goes to die but at the same time we can't ignore that Capital markets are huge right our whole financial system is based off of it what changes um need to happen in order to improve the system for women you know as a whole and I know that's a loaded question what would you say if you could take a stab at that well yeah that is a huge question um I would say we need more mentors and role models we need to change workplace culture and I say that coming from the financial advising and the Investment Bank side but Calvert's kind of a unicorn but I think most Financial Services envir enironment are not very female friendly or even just like early career friendly you know it's a lot of places are kind of like pay your dues or it's like you're getting hazed to like assimilate you know I think we need to change marketing for like financial services and products uh make pay transparent I don't know kind of all the things change loan underwriting like the whole system really I was I was really gutted when row was overturned and in with some of the some of the decisions that have been made over the last few years we very fortunate to work in a workplace um we're we're 70% women we're 80% of our management team we are a very respectful uh environment and it was like this this Stark reminder that women are still kind of categorically undervalued in our economy and our society and I think that has to change right that the the the understanding of worth um and the role that that we play in our economic system and our in our social system um really has to has to change for our financial system to change um because you still see it you still see it you there's enormous access to credit gaps for women own businesses um I think the highest unbanked per um population in the US are single mothers and it is a it is a financial system set up that it's relationship based and it is structured um to Value men over women um and and I think it's until that changes um it's it's really hard to to shift a system um to to think otherwise and so you know these systems are all interconnected um and and I think um really understanding and driving the the the just just pure worth is is going to be really critical um and recognizing it recognizing it and and uh and as an issue is going to be critical if we're going to see widespread systemic change just to piggy back on that a world economic forum's Global Gender Gap report so female talent and finance Still Remains one of the most untapped business resources and women make up more than half of the entry-level Finance Workforce in the US which I was surprised at that but only 6% of senior positions which I might even think was high and another interesting statistic globally is that 65% of women have an account with the financial institution compared to 72% of men the study that always floes me is that 98.6% of all Financial Professionals of all people who control money identifies as both white and male and that is just so overwhelming uh to to think about and and the impacts that that has on our financial system yeah I mean that's why at Calbert we intentionally hire diverse teens and diverse candidates because we're trying to change the system at that level too and um just show that it's beneficial to to business and and the world and the environment so I really love that yeah it's not just about race but you know professional background and nationalities and ages and things like that so I'm curious that's one area that I have seen people give traditional finan Finance years give some side eye too um of is that really a good business model is that um you know are you risking your money unnecessarily which I always have to kind of roll my eyes and shake my head and keep going um but have you all encountered resistance to having a diverse fund manager approach I have not not for people um underrating us I mean obviously there's you know there's a lot going on in the um diverse manager um space with the with the Fearless fund lawsuit and and everything going on around that which is the amount of of fear it has created in the space um is really letting the you know letting them win um and which is which is just going to be you know continue to set us back um and so you know like most things we have to go of go above and beyond to make the argument that it's good business or that it's a good investment um um and it's not just about gender it's about financial performance or it's not just about race it's about um you know under represented sectors and industries and I think we can't we can operate from a place of fear um when trying to shift the system um because if we if we do we will never change for those who may not be aware The Fearless fund is a venture capital fund that intentionally invests in businesses led by women of color since their founding in 2019 they have invested nearly $27 million in 40 businesses and awarded another $3.7 million in grants according to the Associated Press The Fearless fund has been sued by the same person who filed the affirmative action cases that went before The Supreme Court this lawsuit targets the funds grant program which Awards $20,000 grants to black women who run businesses they're claiming that this particular program violates a section of the Civil Rights Act of 1866 as of the release of this episode the 11th US Circuit Court of Appeals has ruled to temporarily block The Fearless fund from running its grants programs we've provided additional links about the Fearless fund and how you can support them in the show notes I know that our audience they they like to act um so now that they have all this great information um and and they want to to do something with it um whether it's create their own portfolio that supports women um or you know maybe it's even investing in calber because um as Anna mentioned Calvary is a unicorn what what do they do where do they start how do they you know create this change that they they want to see I think that's a a call to action is a great segue uh Fon at at RBC had a good quote and said that you know we can't just educate ourselves on these problems and like kind of get bogged down on that like thought is not action is what she said and so I always try to like work that into the end of you know some kind of educational you know conversation and um that really starts with knowing who benefits from your money who benefits from your business where do you Bank um Mighty deposits is a great resource to go and look at um what you know where you want like looking at sdfi that supports the geography or the the communities that you want to Mighty deposits cash banking institutions cdfis that's a great place to start because everyone has a bank account um mutual funds elvest is a great place to learn about that elevate is a great mutual fund that um invests in large companies that Advance gender diversity and Equity um jstc is an ETF that Adina puts out and they have tons of resources they're amazing um and fixed income look at the use of proceeds I mean I wouldn't dig too deep on some of these corporate bonds but there's lots of really awesome green and social bonds that are doing good and doing well and then you know looking at Venture there's there's so many ways to just kind of learn about who benefits from your your money and there's lots of books that we already mentioned um and podcasts and things like this one yeah and I would say um one if a a Pioneer in in this space is is Suzanne beagle um who I'm sure you all have have heard heard of or learned from but um she was was recently diagnosed with with cancer and what she wants to do what she's doing uh with kind of her last stages of life is creating a portfolio that she wants people to replicate um of of gender genderland Investments and Investments that are really advancing women our in our economy um I'm forgetting the name of the of the fund but she has created a fund she's putting products in it and she really wants her Legacy to be um sharing that uh the portfolio the options the the Tactical action-based um Solutions so that many more people can um can get involved in this work um and so and she's been just a a a stalwart kind of um champion of of this space for many years globally um and so we'll all make sure we we all have the the link um to that but it's it's a great portfolio that she's curated for for all the rest of us next wave next wave impact fund thank you given that we have five women here in professional Finance industry um Capital Access one of the things that I'm thinking about and reflecting on is is like how do I like I don't talk about this stuff with my friends like my social group and so like how can we be ones that are more aware of this world kind of normalized talking about money and Investments around the fire pit or you know at the pool side while our kids are playing and because I know it's it's kind of taboo to say well how much money do you make where do you invest it but like I feel like the best the best advocate for my my female neighbor would be me if there was some comfort level but I don't know how to open those doors like how can we do more of that because I feel like that those are the seeds that I'm not intentionally planting but maybe I should be I love this question I literally talk about this every day I love it so much because I came to this so late in life and I'm just like did you know like did you know that you can make 5% on I don't know if I can call out names here but you know this money market that's doing all kinds of venture um investment in you know biodigesters for example or you know I don't want to call it an institution but like talking about like did you know that your cash can make 5% I mean at the big Banks you're making 0.001 or something I was grandfathered into like such a low rate that didn't even exist anymore because I opened it in college so saying that like did you know like if you're buying a house in a year or two or three years like this is a safe FDIC insured place and you know you don't have to just switch your whole Bank like open your emergency fund open your Christmas you know savings your rainy day fund whatever it is and earn this great return and go to bank rate and look at all these different and then go to Mighty deposits and see what these organizations do with their money I mean even things like do you have a will do you know how to get a will like I just got a will done and so talking to a friend about that and like how important that is because things happen all the time and you know as you get older you have more lived experience with things happening in your family unexpectedly and um especially finances you know like like open like a living trust relative to per you know like things like that um we're starting to have those conversations you know yeah talking about 529s talking about kids you know whatever it is that you're interested in and working on the other people are interested in that too um finding out things like you can like open 1529 and transfer it to multiple beneficiaries so you don't have to open one for every child and it doesn't have to go to your biological child you can use it you can change it into your name there's like so much interesting information and I talk about that over a wine it doesn't have to be like you know a lecture you know it's like look at what I just learned and so that's how I normaliz it's just you're chitchatting you know yeah and I think language is so important right I mean I I think of it like the legal profession right the financial profession has created it this lingo to make it you know unaccessible to to most people um none of this is right rocket science right is it is very logical very simple kind of Concepts but because it's all wrapped in language that most people don't grow up with um it is it is seemed to be inaccessible and so I found that with my friends I don't have a lot of friends other friends that are in finance and I found that it might if if something comes up that we're talking about this happened when when the the Silicon Valley Bank crisis I was having dinner with girlfriends like that night right and they were like you know what's what's going on what happened and I you know just just breaking it down in terms of this this is how the bank was making Investments this was the challenge this was the this was the issue and and and when you actually just say it in in plain language right it's it's it's easy understand and every like oh I get that like that's not too complicated for me to understand um and so I think that's that's what what I found is that people kind of as soon as you start to talk about Investments or Finance people kind of throw up this wall um and it really takes kind of accessible language just to to say this is you know this is something that you have full brain capacity to understand right these are brilliant women um uh it's just you know putting into plain English so one last question that we ask all of our guests because this is Renegade Capital how do you define a renegade I would Define a renegade as someone who doesn't use a conventional road map yeah I I would I was GNA say something similar you know um someone who who bucks the trend who who doesn't settle for status quo um and who asks question after question after question um to find something that makes sense not just what is kind of considered normal or or accepted all of you all of you are Renegades I love it um thank you all for coming and I know that this is an audio um form of communication and people can't see it but I just want to point out that Beth has on a shirt that says let women run [ __ ] and that is the theme for today's episode so thanks for living those values even in the shirt that you wear thank you for listening to this episode of renegade Capital if you like what you heard you can listen to previous episodes on your favorite podcast platform and be sure to follow us on social media at Renegade capital or check out our website www. Renegade Capital podcast.com to never miss a new release our show is hosted by Andrea Longton Ebony Perkins and Leah freemount publicized by Elizabeth Gilbert ketzel of narrator Studios and produced by Yours Truly chance Ling